If Facebook is good for one thing that would be the dissemination of fake news, such as the viral fake news story about the Pope endorsing Trump in 2016, which was written by teenagers in Macedonia before being lapped up by millions of Trump supporters in the U.S. as the gospel truth.
Where you don’t expect to see it is in the local paper but sure enough last week the Sea Coast Echo ran, “Report: Illegal immigration costs taxpayers $116 billion annually; Californians, Texans, Floridians pay the most” which was a collaborative effort between a anti immigration organization founded by a white supremacist that has been classified as a hate group by the Southern Poverty Law Center called the Federation for American Immigration Reform and a right wing propaganda outlet now known as Center Square aka the Franklin Center for Government and Public Integrity.
The links in the above paragraph took me all of 10 seconds to find using google. The next one took me 3 seconds:
4 myths about how immigrants affect the U.S. economy ~ PBS Newshour
Myth #1: Immigrants take more from the U.S. government than they contribute
Fact: Immigrants contribute more in tax revenue than they take in government benefits
A 2017 report from the National Academies of Sciences, Engineering, and Medicine found immigration “has an overall positive impact on the long-run economic growth in the U.S.”
I figure the reason the Nation’s dysfunctional immigration system has not been reformed despite two attempts over the past 12 years is because there is so much misinformation out there that people accept as the gospel truth, including the whopper that the immigrants that come here are mooches and freeloaders when such is not the case.
The Echo does a fine job reporting on local issues. Maybe they should stick to that and leave the national topics alone.
Lies, Damn Lies and Statistics
I don’t believe either study tells the real truth.
Myth 1 is a yes or no proposition. Either they pull their weight or not. My experiences preparing W-2s and taxes tells me the data driven analysis which indicates immigrants pay more than they pull is accurate and the National Academy of Science study is not the only one that shows that.
Undocumented immigrants pay millions of dollars in state taxes — even in the reddest states ~ Vox
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_impact_of_illegal_immigrants_in_the_United_States#Budgetary_impact
Yes, someone could pull a locality that is fiscally burdened by immigration but those would be more the exceptions.
Before the advent of the ITIN in 1996, it would not be uncommon to prepare W-2s for an agribusiness and have several come back on a bad cross match because some of the seasonal labor was undocumented and they just made up social security numbers. Those folks left every dime of taxes in the Treasury. Today it is possible for undocumented immigrants to file their taxes using an ITIN and the Congressional Budget Office estimates between 50 and 75% do exactly that. If you are not a citizen there is no earned income credit or other tax giveaways available. Same for the overwhelming majority of social welfare programs, if you aren’t documented you’re not eligible.
While it is true some folks use stolen social security numbers that percentage is a fraction of the total.
Trump can huff and puff claiming immigrants are freeloaders but like so many other things the reality is far different.
NBC ‘s 20/20 did a segment in the late 90’s on famous Parkland Hospital in Dallas (where President John Kennedy, his assassin, Lee Harvey Oswald, and Oswald’s assassin, Jack Ruby, all died) and the serious situation in the maternity ward of the facility being financially stressed to the point of almost closing but for Medicaid, and additional Federal and state funds with illegals having babies, including pre natal care, child care instruction classes, new born supplies, etc. and not paying. It is interesting to read now that these illegals may have been employed, and did pay taxes, and were still getting all of these services for free. Hmmm?? After the second free delivery, the hospital was only asking $10 a visit and $100 for the delivery, but to no avail. This was way before “fake news” was a household word.
Anyone that truly cares for unborn American citizens or otherwise would not begrudge a baby getting proper medical care.
That said here we are 30 years later and uncompensated care regardless of citizenship is still an issue, we still pay more per capita for medical care than any other nation on earth (despite not covering everyone). We like to claim that we are the best of the best here in the US and yet we are still the only industrialized country that does not give every citizen access to healthcare.
Your insurance company and your politicians got a lot richer despite that, which is the only thing that has changed since then, even down to blaming Hispanics for everything.
If my concern for the unborn, wherever they are from, is being questioned here, you are going to strike out. My position is clear and public.
That is another debate.
Maybe we could cover more of our own citizens if we didn’t have so many non citizens covered, and whose home countries also receive aid from us to supposedly relieve the suffering of their own citizens.
I don’t know and don’t pretend to know how much we actually spend on illegals. Can’t argue with anyone’s math on this, but what should the cost of illegal immigration be for any nation?
I would say nothing because no one should be trying to enter any country’s borders illegally. If your first act in migrating is to break the law, then find me guilty of not liking your avenue of approach.
We are stuck with this issue now. Just holding it a bay will the most we can expect.
You’ve heard the old saying, there is no such thing as a free lunch.
As for the cost of our dysfunctional immigration system, if the receipts are more, the difference is called profit.
People make money off the current system and by people I mean your fellow citizens. Were the chicken processors taking a risk hiring undocumented workers? Based on the fact that their labor needs were met along with the fact we don’t prosecute the employers tells me they weren’t running much of one when ICE showed up on their doorsteps last month. Then again migrantions of humans is no more of a law and order problem than was the manufacture of whiskey before prohibition. Making it one always makes things worse.
The bigger question to me isn’t whether or not we need the labor because the marketplace is giving us that answer. The bigger question to me is when some sanity is going to return to this issue by coming to terms with actual facts over fear monger inspired hatred. Until it does a political compromise will not possible and we’ll be stuck with the status quo.
As for those chicken processors, when things die down they’ll be back to business as usual and the ICE raids of last month will prove an exercise in futility.
The owners of the chicken processing plants should be in jail, and heavily fined. They know our laws better than immigrants do.
They absolutely do. They also evidently own a few politicians. The Republicans are in charge both nationally and in Mississippi. The party talks the talk but is failing to walk the walk.
You can find US Attorney Mike Hurst on Twitter @USattyHurst . Tell him to do his job and that doesn’t mean charging a middle manager like they did at Howard Industries.
I’ll leave this link here and hush hoping more folks chime in. Remembering Howard Industries raid:
https://www.foxnews.com/world/executive-for-mississippis-howard-industries-sentenced-for-hiring-undocumented-immigrants
Wow Lana Noonan. To think that you are running anything is shocking. I hear this over and over again from people who think they are immune from being hateful. People like this Lana lady speak just a little of what they think. They are emboldened by an uprise in a current of energy, it isn’t full blown nazism, but it is the building blocks for something similar… We all know how we are supposed to treat eachother, and to blame a money shortage on these people fleeing death and coming here to work is ignorant. As a country we waste so much money. As we speak we are spending trillions to go to the moon. So don’t act like we don’t have money to birth babies lady. Your predjudice is only consealed by a thin veil and when this disgusting excuse for a president is out of office and these hateful forces go back into the shadows you are going to have to stand by your words and actions… When America comes out of this dark hateful cloud you aren’t going to be able to walk back your hateful support for these murderous policies. When we are looking back at this moment you have been on the appalling side Miss Noonan. I know you probably think you are just the kindest and smartest person, but let me tell you for sure if you are supporting policies that will knowing lead to someone else’s death than you need to have an honest conversation with yourself and evaluate exactly how your beliefs and actions are lining up… are you a Christian? Does love thy neighbor not mean anything?
Michael you may not believe this but I’ve found Lana to be open minded and open to new ideas and concepts.
How many times has ignorant, racist crap like that Echo story appeared in the legacy media through time? This jind of thing is not an isolated instance.
Save some fire for the Echo and their corporate owner. Let them know you expect them to run news instead of white supremacist propaganda.
One other thing, the ITIN program began in 1996, before that it was much harder to file without a social security number. That is why we had so many situations where the employees paid taxes using a made up SSN and left the tax money (including the social security tax) with Uncle Sam. The ITIN was a game changer for collecting taxes from undocumented immigrants.
The Left gets hysterical about anything that may differ from their opinion. Illegal immigration is what it is. It has security, health and financial risks. Very real and present risks.
The left needs a song titled “America The Ugly” then they will be happy.
If the Squad is your leader and or showing y’all the path to prosperity, security and preserving our great country good luck.
I believe this is about all can say on this irrational conversation.
God Bless Yall
All hail the wingnut has arrived. Nothing to add of substance, always critical and permanently pissed off. What is it about reality that scares you Rod?
Nothing at all I knew you would get nasty if it did not settle right with you. Name calling doesn’t bother me. I veiw America different than you. Period! I like my veiw. America is competitive, hard working people defined by laws. If this is not what someone likes and are not willing to conform to the ideals we hold dear then whine, cry, kick and scream till it makes them feel better! I am satisfied with my country and it’s people. The USA doesn’t need to conform to my weaknesses I have to meet the challenge to succeed. Like I said I will get out of this conversation as it is not a rational argument for me. Again Respectfully!
I’m simply stating a fact Rod. Tell me, what is the irrationality you object to so much? Be specific. I never knew tax stats to be liberal or conservative, they are what they are even if you don’t like the answer.
Better yet what are your solutions? Wingnuts are good at calling people socialists, fear mongering and scapegoating minorities but short on actually offering solutions. Let’s hear yours.
Follow the law! Don’t rationalize illegal. This is basic fundamentals of America. We can’t pick n choose what we want. One law helps me another hurts me I still have to follow the law or there are consequences. Justifying illegal status just does t fit into my idea of a republic that defining our borders was fundamentL to the founding fathers! Desecration of my core beliefs of America is not getn anywhere with me! Not having a SS Number is not paying into the system that you rely on to help folks who do pay! Wanting to be legal but not wanting to do what it takes to do so is not acceptable. Just my humble American I traveled all over this planet as a ship captain. 72 men n women and 13 nationalities and they all want to live here! My life experiences may be different from yours but it is my knothole that I can veiw from. I was radical young fella that realized that opportunity was available and it was up to me to change and I did and it has worked out well.
Guess what Rod, those Chicken processors don’t have to follow because nothing ever happens to the employers. Your solution could as well involve the fairy godmother waving a magic wand because it isn’t realistic.
Some folks say the definition of insanity is making the same mistake over and over expecting a different result. That’s where we’re at on immigration.
I didn’t give a solution I stated an opinion. I fully believe the employers need to be punished. The jobs are the carrot that brings them the laws not being enforced allow them to come and bleeding hearts accept it.
Fair and right are not always the same thing! It is not my job to support illegal immigration if it is your job go for it! I want my modest wealth to go to my family not families of those who broke our immigration laws.
Watch this the farmer that was on this morning saying he was unable to hire any local yokels to work for him. He is relying on people from other countries. How many other farmers, processors of raw material use the willing to work people from other countries…how closely do they need to look at paperwork?? I suspect not too close if they don’t get prosecuted for hiring illegals.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/made-in-usa-american-giant-bringing-manufacturing-jobs-back-to-the-homeland/
There are migrant labor laws but you have to be processed not just show p mysteriously n be employed and be entitled to our system of benefits!
The H2A agriculture visas for temporary and seasonal workers would have a hard time translating for chicken processors because of the fine print, including the free housing requirements.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/H-2A_visa
For a Cotton Farmer or even an operation like Eubanks here in Mississippi they are more functional but it is still a cumbersome process.
https://civileats.com/2019/07/16/the-h-2a-guest-worker-program-has-ballooned-in-size-but-both-farmers-and-workers-want-it-fixed/
I have a CPA bud that works for a publicly traded agribusiness so I know a few things on that particular topic between that association and doing farm taxes for my practice.
I’ve also in my career seen undocumented workers that were not caught by E-verify.
Is our State Attorney General
co-operating in this chicken processing plant fiasco, or what is his legal obligation?
Immigration is a federal matter. It is possible state laws were also broken but Hurst belongs on point here as the major violations are US Code
Well, if it possible that state laws were broken, the AG should know it and take action. He wants to lead this state. Now is the time to show leadership.
I do not know if any state laws were broken but it is possible. I do not possess the legal credentials to know one way or the other. The raid was by a Federal Agency that does not answer to Jim Hood. They have the evidence and they are answerable to the US Attorney. If Jim Hopd has a role it would be minor given this is Federal law and federal agents with the evidence.
I know this, politically it would look good for him if he were to involve himself and file state charges given the upcoming election.
That is probably true Doug. If it doesn’t meet this need you have to correct it or pay what legitimate labor needs to do it across the board not just a loophole to get into our system n propogate. Just saying to hell with the law is not the answer.
As a Merchant Ship Captain any time you enter a port the first line of action is Customs, Immigrations and Inoculation Documentation. So I do have more experience in this than most! It is cumbersome, costly but it is important!
Every country has a right to know and approve who comes in! Each of my crew members at their own cost had to comply with inoculations, background checks n passports. You have to surrender your documents to the ship master to come aboard or get off. Over the years lefties challenged to basic to international commerce and were left unemployed!
I agree, Rod. The bottom line is we, and other countries, all have the right to know who is entering our borders. This is “Safety for Dummies.” Now, to arrest only the illegals in the chicken processing plants raids, in my opinion was wrong. Did they break the law being here illegally? Yes. But they couldn’t enter those plants and work without permission and approval of the owners. As I posted before, this whole immigration thing is a mess. It has gotten totally out of hand, and I am sick of my country being portrayed by some as the bad guys. You are a world traveler. You know what you had to go through to enter other countries. As I said:
“Safety for Dummies.” But some just don’t get it.
The people we are talking about coming into this country now are not arriving as crewmembers on a banana boat like Rod is describing, but people escaping from a totalitarian dictatorship, like the East Germans fleeing from their communist country in the 20th Century. We welcomed them now…why not now? What has changed in this country? Oh yeah…now I remember…Make America Great Again.
I welcome all of them, Fred, as long as they can prove who they are. Would you say the world has changed just maybe a little since the era you described in your post with regard to security?
As I said, some just don’t get it.
Kudzu,
You know some shit put your money n effort up first! LOL
Lana, don’t try and lecture me about national security. I served in the US Army for 20 years during the Cold War, half that time in Europe serving with troops near the Fulda Gap and later with Allied Forces Central Europe, NATO’s primary war-fighting headquarters. I also served on the Army Staff in the Pentagon as a staff officer working on national security contingency plans. What are your bona fides? Or are you one of those quivering, fearful wingnuts who gets her information from Fox News and Rush Limbaugh? For the record, the greatest threat to our national security today is not undocumented immigrants, it is the current occupant of the White House who is a mentally unbalanced tool of the Russians and is prone to tweeting highly classified information, much to the delight of our international adversaries. Oh, and now he has torn up nuclear weapon treaties so it looks like we are slip sliding back into Cold War II. So, to answer your question, no things have not really changed that much.
Rod, with regard to my effort, see previous paragraph.
Kudz,
Great Career, Admirable man. Open your home n check book for the things you believe in and I will do likewise! Good luck with your endeavors!
Fred,
So, apparently you spent all of that time in service to our government, and came out driven by politics, and still don’t understand safety in the 21st century.
Thanks for your service to our country. My husband is a Veteran too, but seems to get it better than you do. The loss of 3,000 American lives in a couple of hours on our own soil must have made a more lasting impression on us than you.
Are you still holding a grudge against President Trump’s predecessor for deporting more illegals than he has?
Lana, you’re conflating two different issues. The 9/11 jihadists did not enter this country as undocumented immigrants sneaking across the southern border to seek asylum. They were all here legally on temporary visas. Neither were the two Chechen jihadists responsible for the Boston Marathon bombing undocumented immigrants. They were also here legally.
My point is that undocumented immigration is not the number one national security issue right now, as Trump apparently believes. Global jihadism is actually much, much more important, and we aren’t making any progress in combating it, because Trump is uninterested in foreign affairs apart from his trade wars. He is similarly unengaged in addressing climate change and healthcare reform. Instead, he continues to pursue thoroughly discredited trickle-down economic policies like tax cuts for the rich (like him) at the expense of the middle class, like you and me. To divert attention from the real issues, he spreads fear and disinformation about illegal immigrants coming here to rape our women and children and bankrupt our nation. One thing he is certainly good at is playing to his base. You all love it. Just read Brandon’s weird comment below. What does Trump’s alleged business acumen and coarse language have to do with his competence as president?
Btw I don’t know what gave you the impression that I am “driven by politics”. Not hardly. If anything, I’m apolitical. I generally vote for the least reprehensible candidate on the ballot. I can’t think of any politician today that impresses me. We don’t produce statesmen (or stateswomen) in this country anymore.
If I had any doubts that you are driven by politics, Fred, you just cleared things up for me.
The reasons that I, as well as many others, voted for Donald Trump are as varied as snowflakes. I will try and hit the main reasons for my support of him.
I was tired of apologizing to the world for how great our country is.
I was disgusted by the way that the media convinced everyone that disagreeing with a certain political party automatically made you a racist.
I was personally tired of people expecting me to apologize for being a successful white male. Last time I checked being born in a trailer park in Georgia is hardly considered a leg up on life.
I dropped out of college after 1 year and became successful because of the personal drive I had to be successful and the willingness to work multiple jobs that nobody wanted to get the experience that served me well in life.
I was tired of our citizens taking a back seat to people that didn’t follow the laws of our country. If 1 citizen of the United States was bumped out of the line in favor of a citizen from another country that’s 1 too many.
I agree that most immigrants are good, hard working people but they are breaking the law as their first action in this country.
I wanted someone that was willing to control the borders, allowing us to decide who should be admitted to this country. It is a matter of law and order.
I wanted someone that was not a career politician.
I wanted a person that didn’t feel entitled to be the next president. (Deja vu in our governor’s race this term.)
I wanted someone that had a chance to prove that they were not part of the past problems.
There are many things that this president has done that I strongly disagree with. There are many things that Congress has not done that piss me off even more. The current Democrat candidates scare the hell out of me. Not sure who I will end up voting for but they keep trying to move the line so far to the left that they are becoming far right.
The unbelievable hatred shown for the current president by some is actually helping him garner more support for the next election. Anyone with an unbiased bone in their body has to recognize one sided coverage.
Both sides have become so unwilling to work for the people of this country that I even wonder that whoever wins the next election will be able to get anything done.
People can label me whatever they want, call me whatever names they want and question my critical thinking skills all they want.
Voting for Trump was worth the chance.
Those that continue to believe that we should allow open borders are doing themselves, their family, their friends and their community a disservice and if they ever let their love for this country overtake their hatred for our president we might be able to get somewhere as a nation.
Let the name calling begin.
That’s a fine comment CF. I know families that have stopped speaking to each other over that dividing line. I figure that regardless of how people may feel it isn’t worth torching relationships over. The battle lines are so clearly delineated that people make make assumptions only to end up making asses of themselves and by that I’m talking about a very sweet liberal millennial Mom I know that will not friend people on social media she suspects likes Trump. The ass part is because I also happen to know someone that got torched by her that actually feels the same way she does.
Where my Democrat friends go wrong is not recognizing that working folks understood they were abandoned by the Democrats back when Bill Clinton was president and after the disappointment that was Barack Obama were not in the mood to reward Wall Street Hillary by electing her next. I understand that feeling but there are lots of people in the Northeast that still don’t get it and I’m not talking about Tom Callaghan.
Where my Republican friends go wrong is believing a political party that caters to the needs of hecto-millionaires gives two flying fucks about anyone else but it is easy to scapegoat Mexican ditch diggers and other minorities using fear and hate as a method of control. That is too easy in fact and I say that because the tactic is time honored..
As of today, anyone that thinks either political party as an institution gives a rats ass about a bunch of hicks from Mississippi has rocks in their head.
CF…..you spoke for most of several generations!
CF! 👍🇺🇸
Fred has been on the government payroll so long he can’t comprehend the policies of the current administration. He’s a snowflake. Rachel Anne Maddow must be Fred’s hero. All most want, excluding handicaps, is for everyone to earn what you get, pay your way and follow the law. We can’t be Santa Claus for the world. Trump pays more in property taxes than most make in a lifetime. He has been dealing with crooked politicians, dumb politicians and dead beats for many years. Imagine trying to do business and develop properties in New York, it’s a challenge in this little county. Its who you know, who you related to, who you give perks to or who is getting something around the ben. Like it or not the most powerful man on the planet is a New York business man with a construction worker vocabulary. He’s got my vote again.
Fred,
In this country we vote. We tolerate liberals when they win and liberals should tolerate conservatives when they they do. Our country is protected by term limits. So the fear mongering on Trump is just what it is.
Again, if someone wants to help illegal or undocumented immigrants as you call them open your door and check book! There is no limit to what an individual or group of individuals can donate in time and money! Trying to brow beat, scorn and debase our conservative opinions gets you nowhere and drives the wall up faster.
I had to leave the Bay St. Louis City Council meeting early last night. Watched the tape later. An Executive Session was called for a personnel matter, and Council President, Larry Smith, refused to join the Council stating “on the advice of legal Counsel he would not go into Ex. Sess. with them.”Councilman-at-Large, Gary Knoblock says,” you have to, Larry. It’s about you.”
????
What was the executive session about. Is he still trying to get rid of the clerk and hire his bff, Jerry Blowjay, for clerk. Or is he chasing the public work guy’s around the yard? I’m hearing it’s very kayotic and they are constantly scrambling to keep everything secret. I think they are paving the road for a Fillingame run.
Brandon,
The reason given for the Ex. Sess. was personnel matter which is legitimate under the Open Meetings law. The personnel are entitled to privacy and not to be discussed in public. Larry refused to participate, Knoblock told him he felt he had to because it was about him, he didn’t, and beyond that no one knows. I am sure Council will resolve it even without Ward 4.
Brandon
A lying les run.
Really?
Utility auditors have found $100,000s because he didn’t enforce the ordinances.
He should have to pay this back. This has been stated in numerous meetings.
All of their findings.
His administration cost us $100ks
And I hear the new state auditor is coming for him and Rafferty.
What are the secrets they are trying to keep?
Sounds like you have inside information and someone leaked the executive session out to you.
Should be no secrets except for hat goes on behind closed doors.
Get rid of clerk?
Came out of executive session?
Who spilled the beans this time?
Blowjay.
Really?
Part of lying les regime.
Can’t see that ever happening.
Chasing public works around the yard?
Any species here?
Seems council and administration get along pretty good for the most part.
In my opinion you are totally off base with your assumptions.
But that is what makes slabbed.
Lana
If they went into executive session what was the microphones still doing on?
Whose job to turn them off?
Just wondering.
Stone,
I don’t know anything about mikes being left on during Ex. Sess. I left early. I did speak to another Alliance member later who stayed, but he did not mention that. Said everyone was asked to wait in lobby as usual.
I watched the tape at home later, which was turned off when they voted to go into closed session.
Larry is over the top. How much longer till they rotate the chairman position? Ward 5 councilman should be next.
Ex,
It is my understanding that Ward 5 Councilman, Zimmerman, has opted not to serve a term as Council President. Guess they’ll move on the DeSalvo from Ward 6. Each is supposed to serve 6 months. Don’t know how they will divvy up the time after that.
Executive Session for personnel?
My thoughts are Councilman Smith is not personnel and this should be discussed in public.
The lady at the council office is their personnel and that should be discussed behind closed doors.
So my thinking is that it was illegal to go into executive session.
Ask the city attorney.
Oh wait, she was told she could not sit in either.
How dumb is that?
So now if a ethics complaint is filed who pays for the city attorney?
The ones that called the session and discussed everything under the sun behind closed doors that told legal council to stay out?
We may find out soon.
Thought you stated you left the meeting early and watched the video from home.
Thought that is where you heard Knoblock make his statement about smith.
Stone,
As I said, I did leave early, and watched tape later. On the tape you can hear Knoblock tell Smith he needed to stay because the personnel issue was about him, he didn’t say that Larry was personnel.
As far as lawyer being left out, when Knoblock motioned to enter closed session on Council personnel issue without lawyer, Seal said, “this is Council business, not lawyer business.”
Larry appeared to be aware of the issue to be discussed because he stated he had been advised by legal counsel (didn’t say if it was his own lawyer or city attorney) to recuse himself, and he sure didn’t have time to consult an attorney in those few seconds before Council entered Ex. Sess.
Go watch the tape, Stone. This dialogue is at the very end.
Let’s see if I got this
Knolblock calls for executive session for personnel issues
He didn’t say Larry was personnel
But he tells Larry don’t leave it’s about you!
Hey Mo, what did he call Larry if not personnel.
Larry is an elected official not personnel.
Illegal Executive Session
Now seal says this is council business not attorney business,
Hey Mo, thought it was personnel,
Guess what Mo
Another Illegal Executive Session
The dialogue is there but mike and tape should have been off.
Who is responsible for that I ask?
What a twist
No, the vote to go into Ex. Sess. was during open session. It has to be done that way. The whole procedure was done in front of the attorney. She did not correct or stop them. Now I am not a lawyer. Maybe you are. I just know what I watched on the tape.